Audio recordings of Joe Biden's conversations with biographer Mark Lewis Zwonitzer were made public by court order through the Oversight Project, affiliated with the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation. Released on July 27, the recordings confirm claims in former Special Counsel Robert Hur's report about classified document sharing and memory problems.
The Oversight Project obtained the release after suing the Justice Department. Biden's legal team initially sought to block publication but withdrew their objections on July 27.
Showed classified documents to biographer
In the recordings, Biden can be heard casually showing his vice-presidential notes to Zwonitzer. "They didn't even know I had them," Biden says, sharing old notes on foreign policy matters. The documents are assessed to have contained classified information; sensitive passages are obscured by muffled speech on the recording.
In one conversation, Biden says, "I had just found all this classified material in early 2009," explaining that he wrote a 40-page handwritten memo opposing then-President Barack Obama's decision to send additional troops to Afghanistan. "I wrote a memo arguing against sending more troops to Iraq – I mean Afghanistan – because it wouldn't matter," he says.
Memory problems captured on tape
Biden's forgetfulness, which Hur's report described as leaving him with a "poor memory," is evident on the recordings. In several sections, he struggles to recall dates and facts, and cannot complete sentences. While discussing a sensitive topic, he says, "Oh my God. I... I can't remember what happened." When he does remember, he warns the biographer, "Some of this might be classified, be careful."
In another segment, Biden, while trying to recall the name of one of his economic advisers, says, "I need to write down names because I keep forgetting them." The recordings also show him saying, "I can't read my own handwriting," because he could not decipher his own notes.
Tensions with Obama
In the recordings, Biden makes candid confessions about tensions with 44th President Barack Obama. Describing disagreements over economic policy after the 2008 financial crisis, Biden says, "When it came to housing, you were really a lone voice; when it came to the middle class, you were a lone voice. I believed we needed to be much harsher than just putting a few individuals and bankers in jail."
Referring to Obama, Biden says, "He was really angry with me," and attributes the administration not going further to Obama and his team being "subconsciously connected to Silicon Valley." "It may sound harsh, but at least subconsciously, Barack and his team were tied to Silicon Valley. The people in the Valley didn't like what I wanted," he says.
Biden also says Obama did not keep his promise to appoint Larry Summers to the Federal Reserve (Fed) because Summers became a "problematic figure." Referring to controversies involving Harvard University and women, he can be heard saying "Harvard and women."
Decision to run in 2016 election
The audio recordings also shed light on Biden's discussions with Obama about whether to enter the 2016 presidential election. According to Biden, Obama offered him advice about running during a lunch. Obama said, "The decision whether to run is mine. It's not about the other candidates," but expressed doubt that Biden could win the party's nomination contest against Hillary Clinton.
Biden says, "He didn't actually think it was possible back then – that I could come out and win the nomination. That's how I understood it." The recordings also describe meetings with senior advisers. One adviser told him, "You have the ability to unite people, you know how to calm things down. Hillary is divisive, Bernie is too angry."
Reactions and background
A representative for Biden declined to comment separately on the release of the recordings. However, Biden-era White House Deputy Press Secretary TJ Ducklo argued last week that the recordings were private and that the Justice Department was using them as a tool for political score-settling.
In a statement, the Oversight Project said, "Since March 2024, the Oversight Project and Heritage Foundation have waged a determined fight to make these recordings public. We have secured a victory against both the Justice Department, which acted under the Biden administration, and its expensive private attorneys."
Special Counsel Hur had decided not to press charges against Biden. The reasons cited were Biden's cooperation with the investigation, a perception that he violated the law unintentionally rather than deliberately, and his age and memory condition.
