Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Tuesday used a press conference at the 23rd annual meeting of the Valdai Discussion Club to push back against a question from BBC correspondent Steve Rosenberg about whether Russia is using “brute force” and waging hybrid war against European countries. Lavrov said he did not recall ever using the phrase “brute force” himself.

“Was what President Trump did in Venezuela soft power? Was what was done to the Nord Stream pipelines soft power? Was the destruction of Iran’s leadership together with their families soft power?” Lavrov asked in response.

Lavrov said that if the question referred to strikes on infrastructure used against Russia with Western support, then yes, Moscow is using force to eliminate that direct threat. If Europe acknowledges that its weapons are used to strike Russia and Russia shoots them down, “you can call it whatever you like,” he said, but he had no doubt that this is a war Europe is waging against Russia. He also said contacts with the United States on bilateral “irritants” would take place soon.